If anyone can please answer any of these, I'd appreciate it:
1) If you overcharge a battery accidentally even once, will that damage the battery by giving the bike LESS riding time? Because just 1x we accidentally overcharged by 3 hrs, but had 1/2 the riding time we used to...1.5 hrs instead of 3 hrs & we've been biking the same terrain so what gives?
2) Which is better or does it matter...to ride the bike till it's completely drained all the way, then charge it fully OR when it's almost drained, then charge it fully?
3) After a battery's 100% charged, after how many days of non-use does it start draining?
4) Any tips or tricks on how to lengthen the life of the battery in general?
Hi,
Don't worry about it. Just have fun!
1) These are quality cells. Likely you have a quality BMS to go with them. That is the management chip. It will stop charging when full. Try charging it with the battery turned off sometime. Then turn the battery on to fill to the last 10% if you need a full charge that day.
2) Batteries 'like' to be between 20 to 90% full. Li batteries do not have 'memory' but never drain it all the way.
3) If you store a battery, do it at about 80% then after 3 months plug it in for 10 minutes and check it. It should be back at 80%.
4) These cells are good for 1,000 charges. That is once per week for 19-years. It will be obsolete within five-years so do not sweat it.
Thanks a lot, PedalUma. I just want the LONGEST (in which the longer, the more fun, ha!) riding time as possible. My fiance' was even wanting to buy us each a 2nd battery, so we'll have twice as much riding time when the 1st ones are drained. But those batteries are like $500-600 each, so I don't know about that!
I agree with Uma, don't sweat the petty stuff (and don't pet the sweaty stuff, but I digress ;-) ). The BMS should manage it fine, and it would have to be a pretty bad charger to not have any auto-finish feature. Just don't leave it plugged in unnecessarily.
As for the second battery, I love having two as it eliminates range anxiety altogether, and it allows me to rotate the batteries so I can usually just pop the fresh one in after a ride (try and commute 2-3 days a week in the summer), and charge the other one later, after it cools off or warms up in the winter. I have a charger that allows me to select the charge level and rate, so I slow charge to 80% and top up the night before if I'm planning a big ride. But you're right on the cost. Especially right now as it seems everyone has spiked their prices quite dramatically as of late. Not a great time to buy.
If you both have the same battery pack on your bikes, you could probably just get one spare if you were looking for the safety margin as well. If one of you is burning much more battery than the other, swap it out at maybe 40% with the full one, and then let the other rider use that 40% as a backup if they run low on the way home. And another even cheaper option if you have reasonable access to plugs on your route is to pick up a charger that can charge faster (e.g. 5-6amp) and then you can top a low bike up quite a bit during a short coffee break. But fast charging is harder on the battery, so that is probably not the best option for frequent rides.
If anyone can please answer any of these, I'd appreciate it:
1) If you overcharge a battery accidentally even once, will that damage the battery by giving the bike LESS riding time? Because just 1x we accidentally overcharged by 3 hrs, but had 1/2 the riding time we used to...1.5 hrs instead of 3 hrs & we've been biking the same terrain so what gives?
2) Which is better or does it matter...to ride the bike till it's completely drained all the way, then charge it fully OR when it's almost drained, then charge it fully?
3) After a battery's 100% charged, after how many days of non-use does it start draining?
4) Any tips or tricks on how to lengthen the life of the battery in general?
This is a good thread for you to read.
E-Bike Battery Guide
Has anyone put a lithium ion battery in their trike? What make and model of trike is it being used in? What issues, if any, did it present? What about fitment? They generally are much smaller than conventional batteries so did you have any problems getting one to fit? When did you do it and how long has it been in use? Where did you get your battery? Do you still use any type of battery tender on it? What brand of tender, if you are using one, are you using and where did you get it? Are you using a lithium ion tender or a standard one? I guess that's plenty of questions for now. Many thanks if you can reply and answer a few of the questions I have about them. I'm in need of a new battery and I'm considering getting a lithium ion one. They supposedly last a lot longer, are much lighter, and hold their charge much better than conventional batteries but I don't know anyone that has one in their bike, trike, or car for that matter. I know they are pricey, but if the life is as good as advertised, they would be well worth it if they perform well in a bike or a trike.
Roadking, I wouldn't swear to it, but it seems to me that Lithium batteries may take a special type of charger. You might want to check on that. Then again, I might be all wet.
PC
[h=3]Why you should not use a Battery Tender® on a lithium battery[/h] Here is the simple answer:
A Battery Tender® can not measure State of Charge (SoC) of a lithium battery. It simply does not have this capability. While they work great on lead acid batteries, they are not able to accurately “read” lithium batteries. So, they will never properly charge a lightweight lithium battery.
Beyond SoC, the Battery Tender® is looking for a 6 cell battery, with each cell having roughly 2 volts. All lithium lightweight batteries are based on 4 cell packs, with each cell having roughly 3.3 volts. This sends the Battery Tender® a reading that is outside of the safe charging window, and contributes to the incompatibility.
So, how will this damage a lithium battery? The answer depends on a number of factors which are too numerous to go into here. The fact is that it wont work properly, it can damage a lightweight lithium battery, and will void your warranty…so dont do it.
A final note- when you see battery companies advertising “no battery tender required” or “works with battery tender”,
they are either lying to you, or dont know any better. Neither of those options is good when working with a battery company and should raise a big red flag about their understanding of the products they are selling.
Look here for some info
People say you need a special charger or tender for lithium batteries, but that raises the question: how does the charging system on your trike know?
When I worked for the solar outfit we checked out lithiums. We wanted something lighter than the 150# lead acid batteries we were using. We decided against them because of cost and because, at that time, 6 or 7 years ago, they said you can't charge a lithium if it's below freezing. I don't know if that's still true or not, but I found this:
https://electronics.stackexchange.c...atteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them
that explains a lot about the problem.
Now, you might say you'll never ride in freezing weather. I said that, too, then on our Yellowstone trip we got up one morning to 26 degree temps. And it took a spell to warm up that day.
It's your decision, but there's some reading material for you. Unless they've gotten a lot cheaper than the last time I looked I just can't justify the cost. But then, I tested lead acid batteries nearly every day for 8 years, so I know how to stretch them out...
The way these batteries are set up
If you over charge OR charge TOO fast you create TOO much heat
This will cause any battery to grenade
The Lithium Batteries are that much more dangerous
I have had group 4 acid batteries blow up It aint fun
Our battery room had sprinklers, fire retard system and a blow out wall
I am glad we only had one small explosion on my watch
If a Harley regulator sticks @ 15 volts or higher you could be sitting on a bomb JMO
Gonna be interesting if the op does do the install.
Can't say I will and can't say I won't. They already have lithium batteries made specifically for motorcycles but I don't know anybody that has one. Deltran even makes some. Companies have been making them for several years now for cars so if they are all that dangerous, why are there easily available lithiums for cars, lawn tractors, ATV's, even jet skis, and the like? Summit Racing sells a ton of them for racing applications. If the alternators on a car can handle them, why can't a bike do the same? I also haven't heard any horror stories about them either. I'm very curious about them because they self discharge very little, are very small and light weight, pack a good punch, and last a very long time making their cost much more reasonable. I'd really like to hear some real life experiences before I make a decision and I'd like to know all I can before I make up my mind.
Well, I haven't received much first hand info on here, but I've been investigating on my own. If you want the straight skinny on lithium ion batteries in a bike, read and listen to some of these.
He says you CAN use some battery tenders!
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/news/lighten-lithium-ion-battery-gear#page-9. Notice many are used by race teams. Superbike and road racing.
https://www.sportrider.com/motorcycle-battery-basics-lead-acid-or-lithium#page-4 Notice that a lithium ion battery is OEM on a Ducati. Also note that Yuasa is developing one of their own for bike use and many of the batteries are DOT approved.
https://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/lithium-motorcycle-battery-buyers-guide. Good read. Basic what it is, how it works, and who it is good for and who should probably stick with AGM
I also discovered that there are numerous youtube vids on lithium batteries for motorcycles and many brand specific ones too.